Saturday, July 22, 2017

Lively Discussion About the Status of the Kingdom of Hawaii - Facebook 7/22/2017

I don't agree with restoring the Hawaiian Republic.
Do you?
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Ikaika Anderson Personally, I think we're too separated to go back to that,but I think there can be a happy medium to both in a Hawaiian Independence government that can be achieved. Basically a combination of the old and now. But that's just thought on it.
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July 19 at 8:25pm
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Mark Miller If we do not restore the Kingdom and then decide to go from there....it's just America and is the same old same old. I have great respect for some that advocate for a republic but...still removed my friend request. they don't want to be friends with me and I don't want to be friends with them. But that is just facebook.
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July 19 at 8:27pm
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Ikaika Anderson To each their own I guess. I honestly just want to see the people stop being treated like second class citizens in our own homelands. And to have our culture respected and not mocked for following it which unfortunately I have seen and gotten into full confrontations because of the lack of respect.
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July 19 at 8:29pm
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Ikaika Anderson But the big factor for me is I think I'm too out of touch in the first place since I was born away from the culture didn't get a hint of the language until I was in college and never knew the stories until then either...so I'm still trying to learn the history.
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July 19 at 8:31pm
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Mark Miller To learn...to want and desire to learn more is a very good thing!
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July 19 at 9:13pm
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Ipolani Bovee It depends on the day....and my mood...is it accomplishable?
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ReplyJuly 19 at 8:40pm
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Mark Miller It's a republic now so....
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July 19 at 8:40pm
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Ipolani Bovee It's seems so complicated to me.
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July 19 at 8:41pm
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Mark Miller It is.
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July 19 at 8:41pm
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J Roselani Baricuatro-Kanīnau USA's illegal self-proclaimed so-called "Republic of Hawaii" lasted only until USA's next NAME-CHANGE to "Territory of Hawai'i" in 1900.
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William Brown A monarch governance will imbue an in-house fighting, a parliamentary governance that recognize the monarch like UK may work for the islands but a republican is where we are today, not productive for its citizens.

In my opinion
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ReplyJuly 19 at 8:47pmEdited
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Mark Miller Have you been paying attention to the US republic? LOL! No offense intended but, Hawaii is already a republic and is it really working? I wonder.
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ReplyJuly 19 at 9:11pm
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Mark Miller But I love that you responded! Much respect for that.
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July 19 at 9:12pm
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William Brown America will never let the islands go ..... my motto is to work within to make changes for native Hawaiians ... jus saying
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ReplyJuly 20 at 5:55am
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Susan Rosier America. .. USA is not being asked to "let Hawai'i go" It is they who did not do things legal with regard to their supposed annexation. . they dud not even "extinguish" the Kingdom as required by international law. Internationally the Kingdom is now...See More
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July 20 at 8:25am
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William Brown Correct to your assessment however the controlling power rest in the hands of USA, not the Kingdom, how quickly we forget Public Law 103-150 to clear USA of any recourse, any remedy to the lost Kingdom, and any compensation towards the event. Maybe my term, "let the islands go" is harsh to hardliners but the reality of the moment is to deal with the current rule with the Act of 1921 versus DHHL.
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July 20 at 9:38am
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Susan Rosier Who accepted the apology known as PL 103-150? No one! USA law is theirs alone unless accepted by both sides. It was, however, an admission
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July 20 at 11:11am
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Susan Rosier As for DOI rule, that too is theirs although there is widespread movement against it!
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July 20 at 11:12am
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William Brown Like i said earlier on this thread Susan, the only way for the Kingdom to return is to abolish the Act of 1921 ....
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ReplyJuly 20 at 11:58am
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Susan Rosier You are speaking if the Hawaiian Homes Commission Act? Why would that be necessary?
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ReplyJuly 20 at 12:00pm
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William Brown Follow the political trail after the overthrow on how they obtain the islands legally versus annexation and resolution attempt.
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ReplyJuly 20 at 12:33pm
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Susan Rosier By international law they never 'extinguished' the Kingdom. In 2000 the Permanent Court of. Arbitration at The Hague recognized the Kingdom as still in continuity. The Kingdom continues to exist. They also reiterated that fact last year in Philippi...See More
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July 20 at 4:27pm
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William Brown Yes to the Permanent Court of Arbitration but how will the decision be enforced? Does the Kingdom have a standing Army? Again, USA has the say in the scheme of global communities colonization under its belt ..... in the name of commerce!
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ReplyJuly 20 at 8:43pm
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Susan Rosier We all shall see. The USA does not have the power they think they do. The world does not respect the USA as they once did. There are other means of persuasion besides war!
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ReplyJuly 20 at 8:48pm
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William Brown Yes ..... America has deteriorated its global power but American corporations and its global subsidiaries have been working to install a One World Order through technology and laws that advocate corporations rights over it citizens and non-citizens to the created Order.
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ReplyJuly 20 at 8:57pmEdited
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William Brown So where does the Kingdom fall into place, i'm afraid we all will fall into a place of servitude of the Order.
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ReplyJuly 20 at 8:55pm
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William Brown Commerce will make and destroy states, kingdoms, and culture.
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ReplyJuly 20 at 8:56pm
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William Brown Commerce buys governments, people, and even attache to organizations that seemingly help the needy.
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ReplyJuly 20 at 9:03pm
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Susan Rosier I understand and have watched this many years. Man thinks he is in control but thinking is not knowing. We are spirits in the material world  faith my friend is not wishing, it is knowing, it is seeing the signs in this material world that come fr...See More
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Kahala Lei Azuma Maui Yes I want independence from America, but unlike all the fake kings and syndicate groups, I am realistic. So with that being said, I won't even allow myself to get that far into thought because that's like jumping in the jump-rope before the people on...See More
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July 19 at 9:13pm
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Mark Miller OK, but is it realistic to believe we can evict America?

I can't help but wonder if what really blocks a truly independent Hawaii......is the belief that we, as an independent nation, could ever expel America's military....See More
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July 19 at 9:18pm
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Kahala Lei Azuma Maui No, but there are parts of it that can be changed. So I put my goals a little higher than I truly hope to achieve, because statistically speaking, most goals are only met at 2/3 best. So if I target evicting America, I might succeed at evicting some behaviors or detrimental aspects thereof.
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July 19 at 9:19pm
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Mark Miller Kahala Lei Azuma Maui That's some sound logic there.
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July 19 at 9:20pm
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Kahala Lei Azuma Maui I can't speak of other families, but mine isn't even on my level of thinking, so they support me, knowing that all of my efforts & goals in life were the good ones. lol 

A lot of our people possess a strong level of conviction, but without the sustenance to back up their beliefs & values. That is where I think we are too weak of a people to even have the conversation. 

So this is where I find the balance:
- I will block the US from making us a tribe or doing further damage to our people & 'aina. 
- I will do everything in my power to restore people, 'aina and every detail in between, then come back to this kind of conversation.

Unfortunately, that conversation might not happen in this lifetime
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July 19 at 9:24pm
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Mark Miller Kahala Lei Azuma Maui Zuckerberg helped speed up the last one.

The people and their relationship to the aina stopped him and his multi billion dollar law team in their tracks. It is possible......IT IS!!!!
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July 19 at 9:26pm
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Kahala Lei Azuma Maui Yep! I agree with Haunani's comment below, but we need our people to be strengthened (just like a military must be trained) before we are ready to have at it. Until then, I believe the victories will be much like the one you mentioned.
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July 19 at 9:28pm
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Haunani Martin For me, there are irrefutable facts: 1. the lawful Hawaiian government was illegally overthrown; 2. Hawaii was illegally annexed to the US (despite the disapproval of the majority of the population); 3. Hawaii was subjected to an organized, well-thought out smear campaign in the press in order to support the illegal actions by the US; 4. The passage of time has not lessened the illegal nature of the original crime, nor the continued illegal occupation by aliens. Ergo, the form of government which the independent nation takes is entirely up to its citizens.
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July 19 at 9:25pm
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Keith Chai It can be done but I'm afraid Force is necessary to gain Independence because the American Judicial system will Never allow the Hawaiian Nation to live again!
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July 19 at 9:27pm
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Mark Miller I think the US wants a republic because it is their form of government.....but a restoration back to the kingdom may allow Hawaiians to choose their own path once given back their nation!
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Kahala Lei Azuma Maui I have an attitude about the truth behind what you said, Keith. Only because we have to get our people out of that frame of mind that America won't listen. No they won't listen. Yes, this is where my attitude comes in:
As a teenager, what did you do...See More
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July 19 at 9:33pm
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Susan Rosier Playing in the USA court system is what they want you to do! Waste time and resources AND hasn't worked for 124 years! Rebuilding a nation takes work. Getting various departments in order and functioning is essential. Food sovereignty is essential. ...See More
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July 20 at 8:46am
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Keith Chai We need to create a Hawaiian Nation Government elected by Hawaiians that will be recognized by the U.S. Than sit down with the correct members of the American Government to come to an agreement. First they must agree that they are illegally occupying Hawaii and then figure out a resolve
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July 19 at 9:30pm
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Mark Miller Yes...something like this is what I believe may well be a true path.......maybe not at this very moment with this president or congress but...that is the very issue even America struggles with. Not much is gonno be done in the next four years.....
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July 19 at 9:32pm
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Kahala Lei Azuma Maui Mark & Keith, we start with the components of the government to achieve the actual government, one department at a time
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July 19 at 9:35pm
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Susan Rosier Why do you want to ASK the oppressor when you already know the answer?
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ReplyJuly 20 at 8:48am
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Mark Miller I gotta go to bed! I'll reply more in the morning!
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July 19 at 9:33pm
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Kahala Lei Azuma Maui replied1 Reply
Keith Chai The Hawaiian language and culture is gaining momentum and we're getting educated in both American and Hawaiian legal and society. Our youth will start a movement and we've shown on Mauna A Wakea that we can make a difference when we stand Pono!
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July 19 at 9:34pm
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Keith Chai Mahalo Mark for your Mana'o!
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July 19 at 9:34pm
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Solomon Kaleiopu Jr. No I don't agree with restoring the Hawaiian republic but I want the Hawaiian Kingdom and Nation back are you a Nationalist or a traitor Mr Mark Miller and I want my Independence from the United States of which my Kingdom and Nation of Hawaii is not a...See More
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July 20 at 1:18amEdited
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Mark Miller replied2 Replies
Solomon Kaleiopu Jr. If any-one here wants to learn I will give you this persons name that is Governed by Kamehameha III Constitution and many other of our Kingdom Laws and right now she is being recognized world wide of Monarchy ruling and Tradition of our own Kingdom Traditions and Laws of how and what we will be again as we were as a Nation well pay attention I will show you and tell of her name soon ALOHA,,..
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Mark Miller Yes, her name is Owana Salazar and is one of my Facebook friends and a distant cousin.
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July 20 at 4:53pm
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Bob Crespo Did not know this was an issue with anyone. That republic lasted less than 5 years. There is no one alive who waxes nostalgic for 1895.
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ReplyJuly 20 at 7:36am
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Mark Miller Not that republic obviously it would be something new. I am for full restoration of the Kingdom under the constitution of Lilioukalani.
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July 20 at 4:54pm
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Bob Crespo Cannot stand the idea of kings. It his antihuman.
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July 20 at 11:47pmEdited
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Susan Rosier Constitutional Monarchy .. The best governing model is in place already! The King gave his power to his people through his Constitution of 1864. I support Kingdom rebuilding! No need restore for it is still here! Why would anyone support less?
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July 20 at 9:05am
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Mark Miller People support different constitutions.
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Susan Rosier I do understand that there are  and even those who want to go back to before there was a constitution at all. There is a group that has been working on constitutional analysis that two years ago came to the conclusion that to be internationally legal the Kingdom had to start with the last legal constitution (1864) and make changes afterwards during legislative seasons after the first election of representatives.
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July 20 at 5:05pm
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Mark Miller Did you know the 1864 constitution has a problem? It was never properly ratified. Kamehameha V just put it into place.

The last legal constitution was the 1852 constitution of Kamehameha III.
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July 20 at 5:11pm
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Camille Keawekane-Stafford Isaac Harp - Paka Can you clarify which was the last lawful constitution? Didn't the monarch still possess the authority to make changes to the constitution? Also the legislature did convene to ratify the 1864 constitution. Am I missing something? 

Mark, can you point out how the 1864 constitution was not properly ratified? 

Also, as much as I love our Queen, her constitution was not ratified either. And the Bayonet constitution is illegal as the legislature was never convened, and Kalakaua was coerced with threat of violence.
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July 20 at 8:21pm
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Susan Rosier I do know. When the legislative session (1864) started the King put forth his constitution and there were no objections to that constitution. Now we could have a nice discussion and I really would love to but.... My mind is on La Ho'iho'i EA activities Saturday in Kalapana ..
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July 20 at 8:50pm
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Camille Keawekane-Stafford As far as the Republic, they were all traitors never legally elected to create their own government. Highjacking our government is one thing. It does not extinguish our nation's sovereignty, it just means they took our government's ability to serve the people of the nation. These self-serving, duo citizens handing over our county to Amelika as the 1%ers, for their own gain were blatantly corrupt. 

Amelika, who we have treaties with till this day has ceased to be a nation when they became a corporation. There is no law they won't break. The American constitution is sentimental guideline to be subjectively adhered to or not at the discernment of every level of government, courts and law enforcement. 

Until the good Americans and good people of the world can take control of their governments again, the war-mongering corporatocracy will continue to let us kill ourselves in their wars and be distracted by false flag events. 

We peaceful people need to actively protect our natural resources and and one another. We cannot continue to be idle in our dreaming. It won't matter what constitution or form of government we think is the right one if we let them divide us by country and race while they strip, rape and sell the planet that gives us life back to us.
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July 20 at 8:57pm
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Michael Daly Artist I listen to the conversation with great interest because the practicality of restoration or some form of reconciliation with the USA is an important concern - and one that an idealist like myself has trouble getting my head around.

I like all the indignant comments regarding the US occupation and the 'can-do' aspirations in the thread like Susan Rosier's comments.

It's a fast changing world and no one has a crystal ball - so it makes as much sense to remain hopeful and work for pono outcomes as it does to be defeatist up against the so called superpower.

So why not aim for full justice?

The USA has redeemable character traits but overall it's a bully that got its feign power by taking Hawai'i before even reconciling its debt to continental natives - first peoples - and African Americans. 

Here is a nation then, that got its reserve bank confiscated by elite private bankers which have been covertly yanking the people and government ever since and boasting false notions of freedom and democracy.

Then, embarking on the Manhattan Project - this resulted in two city annihilations in Japan causing multiple generations of global shock that seem to persist to this day.

The A-bombs represent unsettled war crimes and they forced the already defeated Japan to assimilate to the US consumer capitalist culture. 

A walk any night in Waikiki or and day at Ala Moana Center will confirm the unwitting loss of traditional Japanese culture.

The USA cannot sustain its $20 trillion debt and global destruction upon which it has thrived since the Hawaiian invasion of 1893.

The USA has only a thread of Administrative authority. 

USA 2016 revealed to the world the hoax that the state has been perpetrating for centuries. The 2017 Pew ratings show global favourability for USA way down while both China and Russia's favourability are up.

The Hawaiian Kingdom once it reasserts itself in the very way King Kamehameha III birthed it may well find the world and a fresh vista of possibilities at its feet.

We all have a stake in the nation of Aloha, as we do in making the USA great again - in knowing its place and upholding international law and sovereignty.
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July 20 at 11:45pm
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Solomon Kaleiopu Jr. The point is that Kamehameha III put his heirs 16-children he chose in the Constitution there are Legal ways to change or alter but no-one have changed or altered Kamehameha III Constitution so how can we go to any King or Queens want to be Laws or wishful thinking with out properly and Legally changing or altering a previous rulers command.. No-one altered or change the Constitution of Kamehameha III. Laws..it was the House of Nobles that would grant the changes or alterations and that never happened and yes her name is Owana Salazar one of the descendant of the 16-children chosen by Kamehameha III. and from his Constitution.. We must go back to the time when our Laws was rule and solidly anchored of our Kingdom. No matter to this day any one changes or alters what was and is our Kingdoms Laws and rules could be and should be charged with "TREASON" and be Killed as TRAITORS.. Aloha even Sovereignty group leaders for going against the constitution of Kamehameha III. True and first King of Laws and International Laws...
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Michael Daly Artist This is news to me and I'm not understanding the detail. But I understand the tone in your message and it sounds threatening, violent and distant to aloha. 

I want to learn more Solomon about this but maybe from a less angry source - and since it concerns the nuances of the language of law someone who puts some regard into English might give me more confidence. 

I'll certainly check out the link Amelia Gora give below - but her words about Queen Liliuokalani seem to contradict themselves - I guess its too complex to explain in short form.

Any way, I can't fathom any constitution or man-made laws or any physical thing for that matter that is not subject to change. 

Their is a kingdom* beyond nations even the Hawaiian Kingdom - and regardless of where one points to arbritary markers in the grand evolution of things great mountains and galaxies change and cares not for human construct.

I'm not saying we need to throw our recent history and rules out - I'm just trying to keep things in perspective.

Mahalo for sharing.

-

(* Im not referring to any religious kingdom - its just a metaphor I think I borrowed from my painful Christian upbringing)
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Solomon Kaleiopu Jr. Those whom are trying to change or alter our Constitution and Laws written by our Kings and Monarchs just to fit their purpose needs or Agendas what do you call them Michael Daly Artist, would you call them protectors of our Kingdom or perhaps Guardian Angels I'm sure that even you Michael Daly Artist are smart enough to know and see when Treason are in motion no-one has the right to change or alter a Constitution or Laws in any free and Independent Country so Michael Daly Artist I ask you kindly to dig deep into your intelligent mind a tell hat would you call those who are trying to change and alter our Hawaiian Kingdom Laws and Constitution.. of our Kingdom..
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Amelia Gora Owana Salazar and her lying relatives, treasonous persons documented.... evidence here: http://kingsqueens-hawaii.blogspot.com/.../kamehamehas... The Wilcox family, descendants of Robert Wilcox is NOT Pono......everyone needs to know this....they move to defraud the Kamehameha's and families of Queen Liliuokalani.......we are the true trustees of Queen Liliuokalani because she created her trust in 1872, prior to her being the Queen. Her signing documents with foreign governments is not Pono.....ramifications of her actions will be brought out.....she is another Pirate, Pillager claiming a title that she does Not own......
Kamehameha's Heirs and Successors Exists
* Crown Lands Truth Amid Genealogy Lies Found In Historical Newspapers or Revealing More Lies That…
KINGSQUEENS-HAWAII.BLOGSPOT.COM
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Yesterday at 4:59am
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James Kamaunu You are right and that's the Truth. Although, they are my Ohana (Wilcox)... history has it's failures and we cannot ignore the truth and I love my Ohana... But to remain Pono, is to accept Akua and the truth... EO....
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23 hrs
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Amelia Gora some tutus have fallen on the wayside but there are other ancestors who have done Pono.... the Wilcox family - Owana's line includes Gideona Laanui who was married to Namahana/Piia who was married to Kaumualii of Kauai and Kamehameha..... they claimed that there were no children with Namahana/Piia and how so very wrong that is.... she was the mother of Haupu/Kahekili, Kuheleaumoku, Kahai, Kanekoa, Kaulia and the stepmother of All of Kaumualii's children, AND Kamehameha's children/stepchildren and hanai/adopted children........on top of that their Aunty Myrtle Schumann claimed my tutu Akahi and still remember that she had lost $5,000 for fighting a court case....but she acknowledged that we were related... Owana however is thinking that she's a Princess when our families who are made of Kamehameha's, Kalaniopuu's, Kaumualii's, John Young's, Isaac Davis et. als. including Princess Poomaikelani don't go about calling ourselves "Princess"......yikes...am somewhat embarrassed for her because she's no different from the others calling themselves King's or Queen's...auwe ...
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Amelia Gora https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=89BlFxuyqYQ
Yo, Ho, Ho, and a Bottle of Rum!!
EDIT: I am almost to one million views. Holy crap! OKAY PEOPLE!! Listen, I just made…
YOUTUBE.COM
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Yesterday at 5:02am
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Haunani Martin Mark, I think providing a platform for discussion is really imperative. Mahalo!!!
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19 hrs
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Amelia Gora btw Kamehameha IV did want the 1852 Constitution to continue on... the value of the 1852 Constitution is that Kamehameha III did provide the anti-slavery law and the U.S. copied it nearly word for word 13 years later....talk about our Royal families being progressive..... the infiltration of the American Civil War generals on assignment in the islands caused an ongoing criminal activity to maneuver our islands pushing the American agenda.....King Kalakaua signed his constitution under stress, duress, usurpation, coercion, intimidation with a gun to his head....and Queen Liliuokalani DESTROYED the Constitution ---which means the Kalakaua Constitution was no more and the 1852 Constitution is in place....if you go to the Archives, you'll see a manipulation of the Queen's Constitution because the attorneys testified that it was the Queen's "purported Constitution".....it was basically a wish list for the Americans and it was even taken up by the U.S. Congressional records....the word purported shows fraud already and we all know that she too was under stress, duress, usurpation, coercion, intimidation which makes any and all contract null and void..... also, our family has an aged article which came from Greece sold off the internet... and it shows that Queen Liliuokalani did destroy the Constitution....good evidence...a short time after i posted the info on the web, Greece had a mysterious fire which engulfed part of Greece! Here's to our Kingdom of Hawaii! aurite! 
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